Dr. Louis' Blog

Dear Dr. D',

Could you please explain the difference between persuasive and argumentative writing…could it be as simple as semantics?

- Gerene

Dear Gerene:

The difference is semantics, but in its most formal sense: the study of the relationship between the structure of a theory and its subject matter. Unfortunately, the semantics of your question is not simple, but I'm going to attempt to simplify the difference between persuasion and argumentation so that we can explain it to our students and parents. First, let me assuage the classical theorists and rhetoricians in the room.

When we talk about persuasion and argumentation, we must first turn to Plato, then Aristotle, then Isocrates, Cicero, Quintilian, the Second Sophistic, and Saint Augustine -- and that only gets us to 400 A.D.! The classical rhetorical theory which these philosophers present is the foundation that precipitates your and everyone else's questions on persuasion and argumentation. As we move forward in history, Hugh Blair and the Belles Lettres, the neoclassicists and epistemologists, George Campbell, Richard Whately, and the elocutionists are the theorists who bring us to the 19th century, and all of them have much more to say on the subject. Discussions of persuasion, rhetoric, argumentation, elocution, propaganda, and many other associated terms abound, and tomes are written on these ideas and their implementation in various areas of our lives.

In what is considered the contemporary rhetorical theory, some of my favorite resources on the subject are I.A. Richards' Philosophy of Rhetoric, Marshal McLuhan's Understanding Media: The Extension of Man; Kenneth Burke's A Rhetoric of Motives, and most recently James Kinneavy's A Theory of Discourse. These later gurus have helped me to understand the earlier ones and have brought the discussion to current day (Note: I have left out many other great philosophers, but if you really want to learn about this incredibly interesting concept, you might begin with some of my go-to people mentioned above, and they will send you even deeper into the material.).

My first master's degree was in Language and Composition, so I studied the material, and I like to start with Quintilian when I introduce the topic of Argumentation. Quintilian defined the orator as "the good man speaking good." No, the second “good” is not a grammatical error. In this case, Quintillian means that “a good man only pleads good causes, and truth itself is defense enough for them without the help of learning” (Russell, Bk. XII, 214-15). I like to talk about citizenry ala Cicero, too. I talk to the kids about "Aristotle's four main reasons for the necessity of rhetoric: (1) it assists in the general triumph of good over evil; (2) it is necessary to influence those incapabile of real instructions; (3) examining both sides of a topic helps to find ou the truth; (4) it is necessary as a means of self-defense against the rhetoric of others" (Kinneavy 224).

All of which leads me to answering your question, Gerene, and here's the down and dirty difference in my humble opinion:

If you know me, you know what a stickler I am about reducing students' stress levels by using common terminology.

I try to simplify this incredibly dense topic by telling them that "persuasion" is about convincing people to "act" differently, even if for a short time. So, much of the time persuasive writing and speaking is rife with emotional appeals (pathos) to derive immediate action. Richards discusses the emotional appeals that underlie the discourse of persuasion, and I like to refer to Aristotle's number 2 reason above as the basis for sophistry and people with inflated egos. I tell the kids, "the masses will “ReAct” when someone gets them "all stirred up," but that action might not last (hence, mob mentality).

Over the past couple of decades, persuasive writing on tests weighed heavily on the side of pathos. When we were asked to teach our students the persuasive essay, we focused on putting forth one side, what the classicists called confirmation. Only one side, our side, was necessary to convince people, and the writing at times was plagued with inflammatory and forceful diction as well as logical fallacies (AP Language curriculum excepted).

But Quintilian's good man theory and Cicero's citizen orator both understood that “pathos” was to be used sparingly, and I believe therein lies the transition of language. Enter Argumentation. And with it a change in expectations. I like to tell students and teachers that "Argumentation" (as opposed to Persuasion), is designed to convince people to "think" differently and, therefore, has a more lasting effect on people's thoughts and actions. This lasting effect is derived from a focus toward ethics (ethos) and logic (logos) and away from emotion (pathos). In other words, ethos is first; logos is second; pathos should be used in very small doses.

We accomplish this feat by acknowledging the other side of the argument (Aristotle's #3 above), even providing validity to the other side in some cases (the concession). We provide the anticipated counter argument from the opposing side, then confute/refute that counter argument. So, now we're seeing the state and national test makers and standards people including concession, counterargument, et.al in the changing state and national standards and student expectations. I think these are the reasons they are calling it "argumentation" rather than persuasion.

The difference is semantics. But, perhaps, it's also a difference of connotation: When we say “argumentation,” we're expecting a more thoughtful, ethical, logical, Rogerian, reflective, objective, Toulmanian, issue-based approach to an issue rather than a forceful, inflammatory, feelings-based approach that we used to call persuasion.

Keep writing,

Dr. D'

Dear Dr. Louis,

I recently gave my students the following prompt:  “Write an essay explaining why hard work is necessary to be successful.”  My District Coordinator told me that [the students' responses] were not showing the “hard work”  required in the prompt; thus, not answering the “What” in the CDs they wrote. One of my students pointed out that our prompt is asking “why” not “what.” Does this mean that in our CDs we should focus more on the “Why” for a “why essay” and the “What” for a “what essay.”

- David

‍

‍From Dr. D’,

Hi, David:

From the mouths of babes . . .! Your student's question speaks volumes, and I am so glad s/he asked it. Students cannot read our minds, so our prompts need to be designed to give them as much clarity as possible, and that could be done by giving them a prompt, such as “Write an essay explaining why hard work is necessary to be successful. Provide evidence to support your answer.”

However, and this is a big "however" -- even if a teacher or professor does not put the last sentence above in the prompt, the “What” is implied when writing an academic, logical response to a writing prompt. The "What" is the evidence, the proof, the example, the support -- what Jane called the Concrete Detail or CD.

Let me provide a little more information:

The “Why” answer to a prompt is usually found in the following color-coded sentences in a multiparagraph essay:

• Introduction

• Thesis
• Body Paragraph
• Topic Sentence (TS)
• Commentary (CM)
• Concluding Sentence (CS)
• Conclusion

The “What” or Concrete Detail (CD) is placed in the body paragraph after the topic sentence and before the concluding sentence, depending on the type of writing and the level of expertise. Here's another look!

• Introduction

• Thesis
• Body Paragraph
• Topic Sentence (TS)
• Concrete Detail (CD)
• Concrete Detail (CD)
• Commentary (CM)
• Concluding Sentence (CS)
• Conclusion

(Note: The above structure is the foundation for an expository paragraph, but remember -- weaving is the advanced move once the students understand the structure.)

Example Brainstorming, Phrases, Sentences (Divided into the Why’s and the What’s!

Thesis = Hard work pays off in the long run (the Why).

Topic Sentence = Going beyond a high school education requires dedication and hard work, but the result can be rewarding (the Why).

CD = 4 years of college (CD), expenses with tuition and books, time devoted to studying (the What of Hard Work).

CD = Research shows that people with a college education make more money than people without a college education (the What - data).

CM = Rewards come from learning discipline, time management, and other skills that can be applied in life (the Why).

CM = With a college education, a person has more options with regard to a career (the Why).

CS = Getting an advanced education is no easy task, but the hard work can result in both tangible and intangible benefits (the Why).

Another Sample

Why – to win in sports (TS)

What – Julian Edelman, the New England Patriots wide receiver arrives at the Patriots’ workout facility every day at 5:00 A.M. (CD - example of hard work).

Why – Athletes must always hone their skills in order to have the edge over other players (CM).

Why – Talent is important, but Super Bowls are also won by hard work and dedication (CM).

(Note: Weaving and ratios are not addressed in this answer.)

Keep writing,

Dr. D'

Dear Dr. D', Could you review the conclusion portion of the argument essay and the expository essay?  I’m still struggling with that part.

Answer:

Sure.  Let’s start with expository.  Go to your expository packet and turn to the page on conclusions and look at the left columns.#1 reads “Start with your topic and finish your sentence with words you haven’t used before.”  As you can tell, this is language for students, but let me clarify it a little.  We know that the first sentence of a conclusion is a restatement of the thesis statement.  Students sometimes repeat the thesis statement, and we want to avoid this at all costs.  One idea for preventing repetition is to web-off-the-topic like we Web-Off-the-Word™ for Commentary and Web-Off-the-Topic Sentence™.  Also, in the commentary portions of the T-charts and WOW sheets, students might find words and phrases that they have not used in their body paragraphs and that are broad enough to use in the thesis restatement.#2 reads “Use one or more of these sentence starters to think of some thoughts.”  Remember, the “sentence starters” are triggers and are not to be used in the actual sentence; otherwise, everyone’s essays will look and sound the same.  The purpose of a “sentence starter” is to prompt the student’s thinking.  Interestingly, the student has six sentence starters from which to choose, but, if a kid gets going, sometimes several sentences in the conclusion might stem from these promptings.  Remember, these are ideas; ask students to experiment.  The prompt, the topic, and the student’s writing style/voice will guide him or her to the “sentence starter” that prompts a response that “feels” like a conclusion, a reflection of the essay as a whole.  And, even though Jane offers ideas to students like “In conclusion, as a result,” etc., she offers that for triggers, too.  So beginning writers in the early grades might begin with “In conclusion,” but we want writers to learn quickly to cross out “In conclusion,” and simply capitalize the next word to start their conclusion. Be careful not to let the students start or end every paragraph or every essay with the same words.  Way too contrived.#3 reads “Finish with an anecdote or story that reminds your reader of the introduction to your essay.”  Again, this is an idea not a mandate.  If an anecdote is not appropriate for the topic, or if a student cannot readily think of a zinger anecdote that leaves the reader with a thorough understanding of the writer’s intention in the previous paragraphs, do not use one.  But, sometimes, just sometimes, an anecdote is perfect at the end.#4 reads “Use ideas from your introduction chart that you didn’t use in your introduction.”  In addition to an anecdote, Jane provides other suggestions to begin an introduction, such as a rhetorical question, a quotation, an interior monologue.  Again, only suggestions to prompt the student’s thinking. I avoid rhetorical questions with the younger students (<11^th grade); otherwise, I get a rhetorical question every time! There are those rare students who can do it well, no matter what age . . .The persuasive conclusion is very similar. Go to that packet’s conclusion page, and you will see.  The only admonition I will give you is that teaching connotation and denotation is crucial prior to teaching persuasion.  Students must learn to select words carefully (diction).  In persuasion/argumentation, this is especially true.

The length?  Well, that’s an author’s call, and I tell the students that a conclusion should have a finished feeling.  For process papers, don’t rush out of an essay, but don’t belabor the points either.  Leave your reader thinking that you created a well-developed, organized, logical exposition. Leave them wanting to read more of your work.  Teachers might want to determine a word count or a sentence count for the younger kids and struggling writers; hopefully, however, the more mature they become, the more they’ll understand the concept and take ownership of a conclusion.More on Counting Words and Sentences - When Jane first developed the program, teachers asked her about number of words per paragraph, and she suggested that for a 40-minute timed writing (AP Lit), the students should have 40+ words for intro and conclusion (emphasis on strong thesis) and 100+ words for each paragraph, the emphasis being placed on the + sign. Whenever Jane provided numbers or ideas, however, they were not prescriptive – just a way to help teachers, especially rookie ones, with a way to negotiate their students’ writing practice and progress.When teachers ask about counting words, we typically turn our attention to the subject of sentence variety.  We advise that not only should sentences vary in types (simple, compound, complex, compound-complex), but also sentences should vary in their openings (not every sentence should be Subject-Verb-Object; watch out for repeating words, unless they are intentionally implementing anaphora; look at starting with different parts of speech, etc.) and their lengths. So, we tell students, “if all of your sentences are 5-7 words, then that becomes monotonous. You should have some long sentences, some telegraphic sentences, some medium sentences, depending on your purpose and the purpose/intention of each sentence. Counting words, then, help students to create a variety. In Poe’s “The Fall of the House of Usher,” the first sentence is 60 words in length. I love to show them that when they complain about my asking for compound-complex sentences.

DURING the whole of a dull, dark, and soundless day in the autumn of the year, when the clouds hung oppressively low in the heavens, I had been passing alone, on horseback, through a singularly dreary tract of country; and at length found myself, as the shades of the evening drew on, within view of the melancholy House of Usher.

Dear Dr. D', I’m concerned that, since everything is so new, the students do not understand how those individual sheets connect to the big picture of writing?

Answer:

Start with a final piece.  Show them a sample of the end result.  This will help them understand how we start with the steps in the thinking process which leads to processed writing!.  Remember, the more mature writers they become, the less tangible steps they will have to take.  The process will become more organic with them.  What we’re doing is providing them with cognitive organizers to help with the difficult process of creating logical, organized thoughts in written form.I tell the students that I would like for them to master the process as just one more tools in their toolboxes. I teach them all types of skills. This is one great one, but it is not the only one. I say, "I'm going to provide you with the knowledge to learn many skills. Learn this one in its entirety. Then, as you become better in your writing, you will naturally start letting go of the hands-on steps because you will have internalized them. In other words, they'll become a part of your thinking process, and you'll not need the graphic organizers. Trust me."